Legislature(2021 - 2022)BUTROVICH 205
04/25/2022 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
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Audio | Topic |
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Start | |
Confirmation Hearing(s) | |
SB133 | |
SB229 | |
Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= | SB 133 | TELECONFERENCED | |
+= | SB 229 | TELECONFERENCED | |
+ | TELECONFERENCED | ||
SB 133-REMOTE RECREATIONAL SITES; SALES; PERMITS 3:56:12 PM VICE CHAIR MICCICHE announced the consideration of SENATE BILL NO. 133 "An Act relating to the sale or lease of state land for remote recreational sites; relating to permits for remote recreational sites; and providing for an effective date." He noted that this was the third hearing in this committee, the second this session. 3:57:47 PM CHRISTY COLLES, Chief of Operations, Division of Mining, Land, and Water, Department of Natural Resources, Anchorage, Alaska, stated that SB 133 would allow the department to offer state land for recreational purposes. It would amend portions of the existing Remote Recreational Cabin Staking Program statutes to increase opportunities for Alaska residents to identify a remote cabin site. It does this by expanding the pool of land where a person can nominate a staking site to include existing lands classified as settlements and all vacant, unappropriated or unreserved land. MS. COLLES stated that it would also prescribe a process to be followed by the public and agency when adjudicating a nomination to lease, purchase, or permit state land for a recreational place. The bill would provide the commissioner authority to identify areas where land is properly classified as recreational sites suitable for disposal as remote sites and offer those lands for staking. It would also allow Alaskans to nominate land for disposal and establish a 10-acre parcel that may be staked by an eligible participant while requiring specific information for identifying the staked parcels. 3:59:17 PM MS. COLLES stated that the commissioner could then approve such disposals at their discretion without a written best interest finding. SB 133 directs the commissioner to establish regulations to implement the program. This process requires the applicant to survey and appraise the site, and for the commissioner to set the sales price at fair market value. MS. COLLES indicated that the next component of the bill would establish a process for leasing a remote recreational site. This process would provide a timeframe for surveying and appraising sites as well as a requirement for marking parcel boundaries and allows for an initial 10-year leasing term and two additional 10-year leasing periods while restricting some of the assignments or leasing and allowing for termination of a lease for non-compliance. She stated that this would be a step someone could take. The last component of the bill would enable the department to issue a recreational site permit for up to 20 years. This process would allow the commissioner to revoke permits or terminate them for any reason. Still, the department would need to adopt regulations to specify lands eligible for a remote recreational site. Permit holders could apply to lease or purchase the permanent site during their 25-year permit term. 4:00:47 PM SENATOR STEVENS related his understanding that this would not prevent development, but it would require the applicant to build a remote cabin. He asked what requirements someone who obtains the property must comply with. MS. COLLES answered that the department does not require an applicant to prove up by building a cabin or structure. It was more about having the property surveyed, appraised, and signing a contract. One provision in the bill would allow the state to issue a contract for 30 years instead of 20 years. 4:01:48 PM SENATOR KIEHL raised questions from a previous meeting. He recalled that one question was the historic average parcel size for this type of land disposal. He asked whether there was a public notice when a parcel transitions from being permitted to being leased. VICE CHAIR MICCICHE asked for a copy of the letter from DNR for Senator Kiehl. 4:02:44 PM At ease 4:03:48 PM VICE CHAIR MICCICHE reconvened the meeting. 4:03:59 PM MS. COLLES answered that since 2001, 807 of the 937 parcels were purchased, totaling 10,655 acres. The average parcel size was 13.2 acres. She said if a site were nominated, it would go through the leasing and sales provisions. She stated that it would go through the public noticing if the land was not properly classified, so it depends on the classification of the land. The commissioner's list of lands that could be sold or leased is exempt from the best interest finding, but it would not prevent the department from public noticing. 4:05:27 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI asked whether the remote recreational site updates some existing language to include settlements. He wondered how much extra land the term settlements would consist of and whether it would double or triple the total amount authorized under the current cabin staking program. MS. COLLES answered that she was unsure whether it would double it. Still, the current remote recreational cabin staking program might consist of 10,000 acres, but the department would only allow 100 people to stake a maximum of 20 acres within the area. She said the department would limit the number of people who could stake in that area. This would open it up to any settlement lands or vacant, unappropriated, or reserved land. She stated that the department had not completely calculated the amount of land, but she offered to provide it. She envisioned that the department could increase the number of people who could go out and stake a parcel. She explained that currently, the department would write a decision for a specific area with a maximum number of people who could stake in that area. 4:07:05 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI related his understanding that the department was unclear about how much larger the settlement land or the vacant, unappropriated land was compared to the current size of the staking program. MS. COLLES responded that she did not have those figures in front of her today. She offered to provide the information to the committee. 4:07:32 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI pointed out the department had several staking programs, including one for personal use cabins for approximately 150 families dating back to the 1950s, a trapping cabin permit program, and the remote recreational cabin sites. He indicated that the programs were complicated because the staking programs had different rules. He wondered whether there was a way to consider the staking programs collectively rather than having programs that overlap. MS. COLLES agreed that the department had multiple types of cabin programs. She related that Senator Micciche's bill regarding the Personal Use Cabin Permit (PUCP) program refers to cabins built on state land for recreational purposes without proper authorization. In the 1980s, the department developed a permitting program to address these recreational cabins, but it prohibited anyone from building a personal use structure. She related that the PUCP program would sunset because it disallows the transfer of properties. MS. COLLES stated that SB 133 would open the permitting process to the general public to obtain recreational property. It would also allow PUCP holders to apply for a 25-year permit and, if appropriate, move to a lease or purchase. She explained that the trapping cabin permits were developed in the 1980s solely for the commercial trapping community and included reduced fees to allow trappers to live a certain quality of life. She acknowledged that the department has numerous programs, but they all have different purposes. She said most are for commercial purposes, but SB 133 is more specific to personal recreational use. 4:10:38 PM SENATOR KAWASAKI recalled discovering that the remote recreational cabin staking was fairly prescriptive when he worked on a similar bill. He related his understanding that DNR established rules for people staking land in remote, vacant, or unappropriated areas because the department might discover later that the staked land had affected the rights-of-way for nearby gas or oil leases or within an RS2477 right-of-way. If so, the cabin might need to be destroyed. He asked whether that could happen given the department's rules to establish which lands are available for the existing remote recreational cabin staking program. MS. COLLES responded that was why the department would consider lands classified as settlement lands or vacant and unappropriated land. She stated that lands with a mineral classification would not be included in the commissioner's list of available lands. Further, the department would adopt regulations to consider RS2477 and other easements. For instance, if someone wanted to nominate or develop land in an area, the department would have to perform its due diligence to ensure there were no conflicts or better use for the state. She stated that would be part of the adjudication process. The same thing would be valid for existing personal use cabins. They may qualify for nominating, but some cabins are in legislatively- designated areas, so the department cannot dispose of the land due to their classification. 4:13:15 PM SENATOR KIEHL recalled that this bill would allow the commissioner to reclassify any land. He asked what would prevent a future commissioner from reclassifying mineral land. MS. COLLES responded that the department has a statutory process for reclassifying land. She related that it would require a very prescriptive finding under AS 38.05.945. Thus, if lands are not correctly classified, the department would go through the reclassification process, including public noticing and agency noticing, and be subject to an appeal. 4:14:48 PM SENATOR KIEHL pointed out that she had referred to AS 38.05.945, but the bill references reclassification under AS 38.04.065 and 38.05.300. He asked how these processes differ. MS. COLLES answered you are correct. She explained that those classification statutes reference AS 38.05.945. 4:15:38 PM SENATOR KIEHL offered his view that this program is fraught with issues and is not popular, noting that the department has issued approximately 37 permits yearly since 2001. He compared that to DNR's program, which is not a staking program, where the department selects land, subdivides it, plats, surveys, and records it. DNR uses several sales mechanisms to sell the land to Alaskans. He said the program does not have a 14 percent failure rate like the staking programs. He recalled that the department sells 200 parcels per year under that program, which demonstrates how popular that program is to Alaskans. He said that in keeping with the administration's goal to keep more land in private ownership, a more productive approach would be for the department to create cabin subdivisions and sell them. He offered that doing so would avoid endless reclassification applications, controversies about recreational land classification, habitat land, or future use by non-cabin purposes, and removing the prove-up requirement. He wondered if it would be more productive for DNR to create cabin subdivisions and sell them. 4:17:52 PM SENATOR MICCICHE suggested that each program had different purposes and that some DNR programs may not be popular in Southeast Alaska. He indicated that he had participated in staking programs and had found them quite popular in some areas of the state. He asked what the department's rationale was for some programs and why some might be more attractive than others. 4:18:47 PM MS. COLLES responded that the department created programs for different purposes. For example, the subdivision sales have a shared lot line. The Remote Recreational Sites do not have road access and must be accessed by planes, ATVs, or snowmachines. She related that those are auctioned with a minimum bid. They are typically more expensive than the remote recreational cabin staking sites. She offered her view that the difference relates to the nomination. She suggested that the department would have more success with individuals contacting DNR who want to locate their recreational site in a specific area. Currently, it is possible to nominate land, but it is not at the same level as this program. This program would provide a solid path for those seeking to establish a site, not just through lease or sale, but by permit. She characterized it as similar to the PUCP, which is no longer available. She explained that people might want to think about where to purchase land, and the program provides another way to decide if the location is an area they are interested in purchasing. 4:21:02 PM SENATOR KIEHL responded that it is a little incongruous to point to the necessity of staking for the more remote areas when SB 133 removes any such requirement. 4:21:28 PM At ease 4:21:42 PM VICE CHAIR MICCICHE reconvened the meeting and solicited the will of the committee. 4:21:48 PM SENATOR STEVENS moved to report SB 133, work order 32-GS1026\A, from committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s). VICE CHAIR MICCICHE found no objection, and SB 133 was reported from the Senate Resources Standing Committee.
Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
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Glenn Haight CFEC Application_Redacted.pdf |
SRES 4/25/2022 3:30:00 PM |
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Glenn Haight Cover Letter and Resume for CFEC Position_Redacted.pdf |
SRES 4/25/2022 3:30:00 PM |
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SB 133 Committee Follow-Up 2.8.22.pdf |
SRES 4/25/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 133 |
SB 229 Sponsor Statement 3.10.22.pdf |
SRES 4/25/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 229 |
O.pdf |
SRES 4/25/2022 3:30:00 PM |
SB 229 |
UFA Letter of Support for Glenn Haight.pdf |
SRES 4/25/2022 3:30:00 PM |